關注婦女性暴力協會25週年 － 創辦人分享
創辦人分享
Founder's homecoming sharing
2022年是關注婦女性暴力協會成立的25週年。我們邀請了四位創辦人 — 王美鳳牧師 Phyllis、吳惠貞博士 Irene、 張佩麗 Edith、王秀容 Linda 聚首一堂，跟我們分享過去在創立協會和風雨蘭的點點滴滴，憶記起工作趣事、當時外界的質疑。當中創辦人亦寄語清醒的人做正確的事，堅守理念。分享會的部分內容摘錄如下：
2022 marks the 25th anniversary of the Association Concerning Sexual Violence Against Women. We invited four founders - Phyllis Wong, Irene Ng, Edith Cheung and Linda Wong, to share with us their past experiences in founding the Association, memories of their efforts and the challenges they faced. The founders also would like to send a message to the people to do the right thing and stand by their beliefs. Here are some excerpts:
左起 From left
林潔汶 Irene Lam (主持 Host)、吳惠貞 Irene Ng、王美鳳 Phyllis Wong、張佩麗 Edith Cheung、王秀容 Linda Wong
攝於2022年舉行之「創辦人分享」活動 Photo of founder sharing event in 2022
問：關注婦女性暴力協會這個名字是怎樣來的？
Q: How did the Association Concerning Sexual Violence against Women get its name?
Irene
左起 From left: 張佩麗 Edith Cheung、吳惠貞 Irene Ng、王美鳳 Phyllis Wong、王秀容 Linda Wong
攝於1997年 Photo taken in 1997
機構的名字我們是商量過的，當初打算命名為強姦熱線，因為整個社會經常避開談及強姦。我們初期成立這個機構時，我們都有與婦女團體、社聯一起開會。我們商量後，決定成立一間有關性暴力的機構，著手做熱線、做研究。然後我們商量該改什麼名字好，我們有提議不如把機構命名為「強姦會」，因為整個社會都不肯談及「強姦」。當時，人們討論著性騷擾、性侵犯都從性罪犯的角度看，他們會認為那些女人穿著這麼少的衣服一定是想別人「搞」你的想法。性對受害人而言是一種暴力，故此我們用了外國的文字 "sexual violence"，翻譯成中文為「性暴力」。為甚麼機構名字不是性侵犯或性騷擾？我是希望我們能從另一個角度出發，不是從侵犯者 (perpetrator) 的角度，而是從受害者 (victim) 的角度出發。這個對受害者而言是一種暴力的入侵。這個機構最後命名為「關注婦女性暴力協會」，是我們希望人們會多點談及性暴力。後來，很多人慢慢都開始談及性暴力，政府也開始談及。語言創造了這個世界，我們都要善用語言。我們想人們多點使用「性暴力」這個字眼，令大家習慣使用它。
The name of the Association is came up from our discussion, and it was originally intended to be named "Rape Hotline", because the whole society always avoids talking about rape. When we first started this organisation, we did hold some meetings with women's groups and The Hong Kong Council of Social Service. After discussion, we decided to set up an organisation about sexual violence, and started to work on hotline and research. Then we discussed about the name, and suggested that it might be better to name the organisation "Rape Assoication", because the whole society refuses to talk about "rape". At that time, people talked about sexual harassment and sexual assault from the perspective of a sex offender, and they would think that those women wearing so little clothes must want someone to "harass" them. Sex is a kind of violence to the victim, so we use the foreign word "sexual violence", which is translated into Chinese as "性暴力". Why is the name not sexual assault or sexual harassment? I wish we could approach the matter from a different perspective, not from the perspective of the perpetrator, but from the perspective of the victim. This is a violent invasion for the victim. The organisation was eventually named the Association Concerning Sexual Violence Against Women, because we hope that people will talk more about sexual violence. Later, a lot of people gradually started mentioning about sexual violence, and so did the government. Language creates the world, and we all have to make good use of language. We want people to use the word "sexual violence" more and get used to it.
問：在取風雨蘭這個名字時，有考慮甚麼因素嗎？
Q: What factors did you take into consideration when choosing the name RainLily?
Irene
我們那時的熱線不是正式服務，考慮到這個服務要讓受害人接受的名字。我們談及要做一個獨立的性暴力中心，和婦女團體、平機會開會討論，很多人和團體都反對這個想法，他們認為性暴力一年只有萬宗，強姦亦只有約千宗，不值得成立一間機構。為何不能針對婦女遭遇的暴力行為呢？其實外國都有家暴和性暴力合在一起的中心。但我們覺得家暴主導了很多個案，個案被標籤為「家暴」，令性暴力少了很多關注，焦點變模糊了。我們希望讓最小的、被隱蔽的聲音出來。如果中心關注所有婦女遭遇的暴力行為，處理性暴力事件的優先權就會被降低。沒有得到支持，但我們很有膽量，我們都繼續堅持下去。我們堅持做反性暴力工作。為甚麼我們要堅持？因為這把聲音是最弱，是社會最不想聽到的聲音。我們不想被其他東西擾亂了我們的堅持。我們沒有錢，所以開不到「檔」，當然聘請人亦有困難，但最困難是不知道中心改甚麼名字可以令倖存者接受，那時家計會有位同事很好，他給了我一個意見，說你不能改一些太直白的名字，因為受害人會覺得被定型。我覺得他的意見很好。取名是讓這個名字可以隱蔽到不知道它是什麼，而又讓使用者覺得賦權（empowerment）。後來，我記起曾見過一種風雨後會開的花，叫「風雨蘭」。
Our hotline at the time was not an official service, we have considered that the name should be acceptable to victims. When we talked about setting up an independent centre for sexual violence, and met with women's groups and the Equal Opportunities Commission to discuss this. Many people and groups opposed the idea, saying that there were only about a thousand rapes and it was not worth setting up an organisation. Why can't we target violence against women? In fact, there were centres in overseas countries that combined domestic and sexual violence. But we felt that domestic violence dominated many of the cases, and the fact that they were labelled as "domestic violence" made sexual violence less of a concern and blurred the focus. We wanted to bring out the smallest, hidden voices. If the centre were to focus on the violence experienced by all women, the priority of dealing with sexual violence would be reduced. There was no support, but we had the guts and we all kept going. We insist on anti-sexual violence work. Why do we have to persevere? Because this voice is the weakest and is the voice that the society does not want to hear. We didn't want to let anything else disrupt our persistence. We had no money, so we couldn't open a "centre". Of course, it was difficult to hire people, but the most difficult thing was that we didn't know what name of the centre would be acceptable to the survivors. At that time, a colleague from The Family Planning Association of Hong Kong was very helpful and gave me advice that the name should not be too explicit because the victim will feel stereotyped. I think this idea is good. The naming is to let the name be hidden to the point of not knowing what it exactly is, while making the user feel empowered. Later, I remembered that I had seen a flower that bloomed after a storm, called "RainLily".
問：成立的初期有甚麼難忘的經歷可以跟我們分享嗎？
Q: During the early stage of founding the association, were there any particularly impressive moments or unforgettable experiences?
Phyllis
左起 From left: 王美鳳 Phyllis Wong、吳惠貞 Irene Ng
當我在10月生兒子的時候，Oxfam（樂施會）給予我們第一個20萬，讓我們請人。生小孩那天的早上我本應要去開會，但我晚上要生小孩，所以他們帶了準求職者來面試。那天是生產的第一天，我沒有氣力，因為我是順產的，我的兒子還很重，重8磅多。那天晚上來得很晚，然後那個女求職者最後也說不幹了。可能是嚇怕了她，的確整件事其實是很瘋狂的。
When I gave birth to my son in October, Oxfam gave us the first HK$200,000 for talent acquisition. On the morning of giving birth, I was supposed to attend a meeting. However, since I was to deliver my child at night, the candidates were brought to the hospital for an interview. It was the first day of labour and delivery. I was very weak after natural birth, and my son was very heavy, weighing more than 8 pounds. They came late at night. A female candidate ended up declining the job offer. I guess the abnormal interview scared her off. Indeed, it was crazy.
Edith
想起過往的那種感受，其實我是很深刻的。25年前的那些片段開始浮現出來。第一個印象是那次立法會通過了一站式支援。我們駕駛往機場興奮大叫。那種興奮源於我們辛苦了很久，投放了很多努力。很多時候努力不等於有成果，但是努力之後，還是看到有一點曙光。雖然只是走了很少的一步（立法會通過一站式支援），之後還有很長路要走，但那股力量還是很強大。
I remembered very vividly the feelings I had in the past, and those moments from 25 years ago began to emerge. The first memory was when the Legislative Council passed the one- stop support. We were driving to the airport and screaming with excitement. That excitement came from the fact that we had worked very hard and put in a lot of effort. Very often, hard work does not mean results, but after putting in the effort, there is always a glimmer of light. Although it was only a small step (Legislative Council approving the one-stop support), and there was still a long way to go, nevertheless, it was a powerful moment.
Irene
記得第一個打電話來（求助熱線）的人是社工。那位社工說他接到一個個案，但不知道應該如何處理。那時我都不知道該怎麼辦，因此我都是一邊從書本中學習，一邊處理。其實遇到性暴力的人會感到很絕望，同時幫他們的人也會感到很絕望。
I remember that the first person who called us (the helpline) was a social worker, and said that they received a case but didn’t know how to handle it. At that time, I also didn’t know, so I was learning from books when dealing with those cases. In fact, people who have encountered sexual violence will feel very hopeless, and those who help them will also feel very hopeless.
Linda
我在23歲時在婦女中心工作，那是我的第二份工作。當時我被安排的第一項任務是反強姦運動。要告訴別人強姦是一種性暴力，那是33年前的事，而當時不論是傳媒或其他人，都認為這是「大女人主義」、反抗男性，並問為何要跟男性對抗。我在想，為甚麼那些人覺得我們和男人對抗？為何會給予別人一種印象：我是一個跟男人對抗的女權主義者 (feminist)？即使看報紙，也看到我們幾個經常被人這樣形容。但是當時也沒辦法。事實上我們只想為婦女爭取她們應有的權利，或是追求平等。
I was already working at the Women's Centre when I was 23, it was my second job. The first task I was given was to campaign against rape, to tell people that rape is a form of sexual violence. That was 33 years ago, and at the time, both the media and people thought I was a 'female chauvinist' and defiant of men, and asked why I was fighting against men. I wondered why those people thought we were fighting against men. Why do I give people the impression that I am a feminist who fights against men? Even when I read the newspapers, I saw that we were often described in this way. But there was nothing we could do about it. The truth was that we just want to fight for women's rights or equality.
問：當中心成立後，實際情況跟你想像的有出入嗎？
Q: Was the actual situation different from your expectation after the centre was founded?
Linda
王美鳳 Phyllis Wong（左二 second from left）、王秀容 Linda Wong（右二 second from right）
攝於風雨蘭危機支援中心於廣華醫院之開幕日
Taken on the opening day of RainLily Sexual Violence Crisis Centre in Kwong Wah Hospital
婦女中心當時做反強姦運動想要去幫助受害人，在長沙灣設立中心，但發現沒有受害人會進入求助，我們就了解到原來大眾不認識何謂性暴力，於是婦女中心就轉變策略，以教育為主導讓人們了解性暴力、性別平等、讓女性可以有自尊，亦不再以性暴力為名目。久而久之家庭主婦就成為我們主要的受眾，為她們充權（empower）。但我們的初心是反強姦，當時亦有強姦受害人走進中心，只可惜我們不是專門做輔導。因此，收到幾位創辦人的邀請，我的確很開心終於有個地方可以強調婦女被性暴力的情況，令她們不用再隱藏（being invisible）。
At that time, the Hong Kong Federation of Women's Centres was doing the anti-rape movement and set up a centre in Cheung Sha Wan to help the victims, but no one would seek for help. We realised that the public didn't know what sexual violence was. Thus, the Centres changed its strategy to focus on education, and educate people to understand sexual violence, gender equality and let women to lead a life of dignity. Also, no longer to use sexual violence as a name. Over time, housewives became our main target, and we worked to empower them. However, our initial intention was to fight against rape. Although we did have rape victims coming to seek for help, unfortunately we didn't specialise in counselling. Therefore I was very happy when I received an invitation from the co-founders, and finally there was a place to highlight sexual violence against women, and stop them from being invisible.
Phyllis
當下我是覺得需要做便做，當然回顧整件事時，就覺得原來都可以做到，只要我們有心，並且與一些志同道合的人一起努力。我認為關注婦女性暴力協會和風雨蘭是香港的歷史，因為它們是香港首間有關性暴力的機構，亦因此喚起很多大眾的關注。
At that time, I just thought we had to do what needed to be done. Of course, in retrospect, I realised that with passion and concerted efforts from like-minded people, we could really do it. I see ACSVAW and RainLily as part of Hong Kong history as they are the first organisations addressing sexual violence, and their establishment really raised people's awareness.
問：你認為反性暴力的進程良好嗎？回顧機構的創立，你有何感受？
Q: Do you think the society has made good progress in combating sexual violence? Looking back on the establishment of the Association, how do you feel about it?
Edith
攝於2010年風雨蘭危機支援中心遷往基督教聯合醫院之開幕典禮
Photo of relocation opening of RainLily's crisis centre at United Christian Hospital in 2010
在大陸已經有人開始做這件事，當他們不懂得怎樣做的時候，他們便找香港風雨蘭，因為我們有經驗。當時我便和他分享有關一站式服務的內容，他們說他們現在也是做這樣的事。對於我而言，我覺得這是一件很美妙的事。另外一個情況是前兩個星期，我去見一個舊同事，我問他有沒有聽過風雨蘭，他說風雨蘭很有名。這並不是想要榮譽，而是二十五年前的一顆種子，去發芽，發展。今天，很多人都知道這個服務幫到很多人，我覺得這個非常重要，重要的是回顧這個歷程，我覺得這個性別意識已經出來了，不單單受害人可以不需要迴轉去很多地方落口供等各樣事情。而在過程裏，我們都有倡議服務。雖然我（後來）離開了香港，但我看到性暴力協會的果籽很廣闊。
There were people in Mainland China have already started to combate sexual violence. When they were feeling lost, they would come to us for advice because we have experience. At that time, I shared the information regarding our one-stop support service with them and they are right now taking the same action which is quite a wonderful thing for me. Another situation is that two weeks ago, I visited my former colleague and I asked if they had ever heard of RainLily. They replied that RainLily is well-known. This is not for honour, but for a seed twenty-five years ago, to germinate and develop. Nowadays, many people understand this service as it has supported many people. I think this is very important. While it is important to review the process, we can see the great development of gender awareness in Hong Kong. Not only reducing the traumatising need for survivors to contend with different departments and provide their account repeatedly, but also providing advocacy service during the process. Although I have left Hong Kong (later on), I can see that the seeds are still thriving as if there are no boundaries.
Linda
我們其實進步了，反性暴力定義的範圍反而是更廣了。那時的人覺得強姦才是性暴力，但其實不是。那時的性騷擾、非禮等等都是性暴力，我覺得都是廣了，雖然社會的人依然不喜歡談及性。
We did made progress, and now the scope of anti-sexual violence definition is wider. Back then, people thought only rape was categorised as sexual violence, which isn’t true. Sexual harassment, sexual assault and so on are all sexual violence. I think it is wider now, although people still don't like talking about sex.
Phyllis
我們相信這是個實踐，而不是一個理念，亦不只是一個服務。在過程裏，是一個生命的展現，你是一個怎樣的人，就相信怎樣的事，你就這樣生活。不只是這個服務，這個機構的誕生亦令我看到我自己。雖然工作太忙，都沒有怎樣理會他們，我的兒子出世後，我真的很忙，生產後要即刻餵奶，之後去開記者招待會，然後回家即刻餵奶。這些點滴現在回望也覺得很特別。在生活和生命的流露裏，我看到我的子女都有些性別意識，這個是我自己開心的地方。
We believe that it is a practice rather than a conceptual thing or a service. In the process, it is a manifestation of life. Who you are will decide what you believe in and how you live your life. Apart from this service, the founding of this organisation also helped me know more about myself. Work was hectic and I hardly had time for my children. I was really busy after my son was born. Right after delivery, I had to feed him, then attend the press conference, and feed him again when I returned home. Looking back, I find these experiences very special. In daily life, I am glad to see gender awareness in my children.
問：對於機構的未來，你有甚麼期望？
Q: What's your expectation for the future of the Association?
Irene
雖然當年是見步行步，但最重要的是我們有共同的理念和信念，有些原則是我們有共識的。有人會問我為何要離開（機構），那是你的「BB」。但其實我認為不是，我和機構都有獨立的生命；是我們幾個人創造了這個理想，走到這裡大家人生會有不同的階段，有自身想發展的地方，把這機構、這服務傳給不同的人，我自己覺得接手的人不一定要跟隨幾十年前的人說的話，因為那只是那個年代的需要和想法。只是原則最重要，不要為了多了錢、多了中心而工作，而是跟隨原則和存在的價值。我亦覺得工作都可以是夢想，對我來說，當年在風雨蘭由義工成為工作，我都好開心份工作能賺錢亦做到自己想做的事，希望大家都抱這心情做工作，那你的心情才會是愉快的，而且工作才能隨時代發展。相信現在風雨蘭的同工都有共識、原則才會發展出這麼多的服務，而持守亦是重要的，要與時並進。
Although we were playing it by ear in the past, the most important thing is that we have common ideas and beliefs, and we have some principles that we agree on. Someone will ask me why I have to leave (the Association), that is your "baby". But in fact, I don't think it is. The Association and I both have independent lives; it was a few of us who created this dream. At this stage, we all will have different stages of life and places for personal growth. We will pass this organisation and these services to different people. I personally feel that those who take over don't necessarily follow what people said decades ago, because that is just the needs and ideas of that era. The most important is the principle. Don't work for more money and more centres, instead just follow the principles and the values of existence. I also think that a job can be a dream. For me, when I turned from volunteering into a job in RainLily, I am very happy that I can earn money and do what I want to do. I hope everyone will work in this mood, so that you would be truly happy, and work can develop with the times. I believe that now RainLily's staff have consensus and principles to expand many services, and adherence is also important, and it is necessary to keep pace with the times.
Edith
對於機構在不同時代，在面對大的轉變時，要記住自己當初的理念和方向。機構的定位、做事的方法、語言系統都可能會隨時代有所轉變，如果真的無法實踐時要如何重新調整，要整個團隊一起探索（explore），希望大家會一起堅定自己所相信的理念。
For the Association in different eras, when facing major social changes, it must remember the original ideas and directions. The positioning of the organisation, the method of doing things, and the language system may change with the times. If it is really impossible to practise, how to readjust it requires the whole team to explore. I hope that everyone will work together to stand by the ideas they believe in.
Linda
當這個是你自己的選擇時，你會很喜歡這份工作和背後的理念，同時亦能實踐它，把它堅持下去。其實在這十年、二十年的時間，性暴力在慢慢改變了一些狀況，不要認為自己很渺小，同時也不要自大，認為可以改變所有事。我們了解到自己的極限，同時做在這個時代中能做到的事。
When it is your own choice, you will love the job and the philosophy behind it, and you can practise it. In fact, in the past ten to twenty years, the situation of sexual violence has been gradually changed. Don't think that you are too small to make a difference, and don't be arrogant to think that everything can be changed. We need to know our limits and do what we can in this generation.
Phyllis
如果這個服務是有社會認受性，是不會結束的。如果它真的要結束的，就任由它結束吧。這是我們的原則。其實開始做一樣事情，只要你完成了它的歷史任務，其他的就隨他吧，有開始便有結束，所以我們沒有任何包袱，反而很清楚知道這個服務或機構的創辦目標。有些清醒的人在去持守當中的理念，做正確的事，以致不會被其他人沾污。這個我也是很欣賞性暴力協會，以及風雨蘭和很多擴展，我想不是為了擴展而擴展。正如Irene所說，我們不需要急，我們需要好。我亦想寄語大家，遇到困難的時候，我們堅守信念，有志同道合的人都非常重要。神學家尼布爾也提及過：「接受我所不能改變的事，賜我勇氣，改變我所能改變；賜我智慧，分辨兩者的差別。」
As long as this service is accepted by the community, it will not end. If it is going to end, then let it end. This is our principle. In fact, when you start something, as long as you have accomplished its mission, you can leave it as it is, because where there is a beginning, there is an end, so we don't really have any burdens, but we know exactly what the service or organisation was founded for. There are people who are aware of what they are doing, who are doing the right thing, they are not tainted by others. That's what I really appreciate about the Association. And the growth of Rainlily, I think, was not just for the sake of expanding. As Irene said, we don't need to hurry. We need to do things well. I also want to encourage everyone – in face of difficulties, we not only need to stand by our beliefs, but also rely on like-minded people. Theologian Reinhold Niebuhr once said, 'accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.'
創辦人簡介 Introduction of Founders
王美鳳牧師 Phyllis Wong
現為九龍佑寧堂主任牧師。當年為社工老師，在和諧之家擔任教育的工作，亦擔任風雨蘭執行委員至2008年，現為機構的顧問成員。
The pastor of Kowloon Union Church. Phyllis was a social worker teacher, and worked as an educator in Harmony House. She also served as an executive committee member of RainLily until 2008. She is now a consultant of the organisation.
吳惠貞博士 Irene Ng
現為護苗基金主席。於香港中文大學社會工作系擔任講師10年。Irene一直關注家暴性暴力問題，是關注婦女性暴力協會成立的發起人之一，並在2001年至2007年擔任協會的總幹事。在2005/2006年度1月榮獲第十五屆優秀社工。
The chairperson of End Child Sexual Abuse Foundation. She has been a lecturer in the Department of Social Work, The Chinese University of Hong Kong for 10 years. Irene has always paid attention to the issue of domestic violence and sexual violence. She was one of initiators of the Association Concerning Sexual Violence Against Women and served as an executive director of the Association from 2001 to 2007. In January 2005/2006, she was awarded the 15th HKSWA Outstanding Social Worker.
張佩麗 Edith Cheung
當年為和諧之家總幹事，其後擔任風雨蘭執行委員。及後，為宣明會於中國內地專門負責扶貧工作。
Edith was an executive director of Harmony House, and then served as an executive committee member of RainLily. Later, she was responsible for poverty alleviation work for World Vision in Mainland China.
王秀容 Linda Wong
當年為婦女中心協會總幹事。及後往英國修讀性別研究，於2000年回港於風雨蘭擔任輔導員，並由2007年至2023年間擔任總幹事一職。
Linda was an executive director of Hong Kong Federation of Women's Centres. Then she went to the UK to study gender studies, and returned to Hong Kong in 2000 to work as a counsellor at RainLily. She has served as an executive director from 2007 to 2023.